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60 comments:
My best insight:
"'Going away?' I inquired. 'No old sport.' 'I hear you fired all your servants'"(114).
This chapter has a lot of important shifts. Gatsby worked so hard to create a new life that would impress Daisy, and now that he has Daisy, he has fired all of his servants. His house has become less exciting. When there are parties, Daisy leaves upset. Everything that Gatsby has worked so hard for has become almost pointless, showing that a dream does not always carry over into reality.
"It was when curiosity about Gatsby was at its highest that the lights in his house failed to go on one Saturday night-- and, obscurely as it had begun, his career as Trimalchio was over." (pg 113) Gatsby as Trimalchio- from the Trimalchio Wikipedia page: " Trimalchio is an arrogant former slave, who has become quite wealthy by tactics that most would find distasteful. The name "Trimalchio"... would thus mean "Thrice King" or "greatest King"."
Compare this analysis to Gatsby- there's the shadiness that we've associated with his obfuscation of his past. The same idea of rising from nothing to greatness, and the king allusion-- we've often seen Gatsby alluded to as a sort of king of his own domain, wealthy and in control, but also as that more hollow position of a figurehead. This line-- what a fantastic comparison
In this chapter Nick seems to have realized that he doesn't have a true relationship with any of the other characters. They all react to Myrtle's death in very different ways, but for the most part they all seem to focus on Daisy and other aspects of life rather than the actual death. However Nick feels sick and seems to be a lot more sympathetic. Seeing their inappropriate reactions to the accident drove Nick to realize that they have really nothing in common and his refusal to judge people is tested. They all make him feel sick, and he refuses to be sucked into their crazy world anymore. Nick's realization is probably for the better, as he might distance himself from the other's selfish ways. "I'd be damned if I'd go in; I'd had enough of all of them for one day, and suddenly that included Jordan too"(Fitzgerald 142).
Best Insight: On page 133 daisy says, “‘Even alone I can’t say I never loved Tom.’ she admitted in a pitiful voice. ‘It wouldn’t be true.’” Daisy never stopped loving Tom, she just grabs onto a romance with Gatsby as a possible escape, but is soon confronted with the reality of the perfect, idealized person that he expects her to be. Daisy realizes that she can’t live up to his expectations and that she prefers the safe boredom and casual betrayal of Tom over the unrealistic expectations of being with Gatsby. Her cowardice is a better fit for Tom, as we find out after the car accident when she kills Myrtle. It’s Tom who offers her kindness, understanding, and a return to stability.
"Her voice is full of money,' he said suddenly. That was it. I'd never understood before. It was full of money—that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it...High in a white palace the king's daughter, the golden girl" (120). In the book Daisy is always on a pedestal, how does this chapter reaffirm or change this perception?
I think my best insight would be how fast Nick's admiration of Gatsby, Daisy and Tom changed. At the beginning he was happy going out with them and spending time with them. By the end he seems almost disgusted by their company. "I disliked him so much this time that I didn't find it necessary to tell him he was wrong" (Fitzgerald 143). This is very interesting because Nick began to realize just how materialistic and unthinking with their actions his rich friends are. Realizing that he should not be spending so much time with them and he should get out now before he is too deep in the drama.
“I’m sick,’ said Wilson without moving.” Wilson becomes physically ill when he learns of Myrtles affair. He does not yet know who it is with, but that does not matter to him. Do you feel bad for Wilson in this story, and what would you say to him to comfort him if you could? -Jonathan
I feel bad for Wilson because he has been left in the dark throughout this story. Wilson has not been a major character so far in the book, and yet I have kind of seen Wilson, Myrtle, and Tom as the "villains" even though Wilson has had nothing to do with Tom's affair. I think I see him this way because he is so ignorant. If he had been more aware of his wife, maybe she would not be in a relationship with Tom. Maybe Daisy would be happy with Tom. I don't think there's a way to comfort Wilson. He is such an ignorant character that at this point, I don't think there's a way to reason with him.
Responding to Jonathan's question, I don't think Daisy hit Myrtle on purpose. I agree with Liam that the chances of survival were greater if she swerved to hit Myrtle rather than a car going full speed. Also, as far as we know, Myrtle has never met Daisy so she really doesn't know who she is other than her husband's affair. Since they have never met, Daisy couldn't have killed her on purpose because she had no significance to Daisy other than a girl who was in the street.
In the big picture, does surrounding circumstances, status and personal gain impact bare and essential human emotion, when that emotion exists? - Despite Tom's supposed affair, "'Do you know why we left Chicago...story of that little spree.'" and his continued treatment of her, it's clear that she is still very attached to him, and a part of that IS her feelings for him. So if is she staying with him because she helpless to love him? And if so, does that "love" come first, before their status and wealth?
Best insight: On page 115 Nick and Gatsby walk in to Daisy and Jordan laying upon a couch just like in the first chapter. In the first chapter Nick describes them as floating and light heartedly billowing in the wind, in this chapter Nick says they were "like silver idols weighing down their own white dresses against the singing breeze of the fans" The contrast between these two chapters shows how all the pressure of relationships and guilt for Daisy has weighted these characters down so much.
My best insight from this chapter is that Daisy is not truly in love with either Gatsby or Tom. In page 132, Daisy seemingly confesses to never having loved Tom, however Fitzgerald describes her otherwise: "She hesitated. Her eyes fell on Jordan and me with a sort of appeal, as though she realized at last what she was doing- and as though she had never, all along, intended doing anything at all" (Fitzgerald 132). What she realizes is that by confessing her lack of love for Tom, that give Gatsby full control over her, and completes his god-like persona. This makes her realize that she does not truly love Gatsby, but rather, like Gatsby himself, loved the concept of who Gatsby was supposed to be.
When Daisy hits Myrtle with the car, she reveals a darker side of her personality. This connects to Nate's comment about daisy flowers being two-faced. However, Gatsby continues to love Daisy endlessly, and they show a lack of morals. On page 145, Nick "walked away and left [Gatsby] standing there in the moonlight - watching over nothing." What do you think Gatsby still sees in Daisy for his broken dream? How will Daisy react?
Best Insight: "She only married you because I was poor and she was tired of waiting for me. It was a terrible mistake, but in her heart she never loved any one except me!" (130). I think that this quote was very important towards the chapter. When Tom finds out that Daisy was cheating on him with Gatsby there were lots of emotions. And as this fight is happening Daisy begins to gravitate towards Tom, which makes Gatsby very upset, because he has worked so hard to create an image for himself, which Tom sort of is destroyed. Because Tom was upset he sets out to destroy Gatsby's reputation, making Daisy see that she really wants to be with Tom and not as much with Gatsby.
My best insight- On page 132, Tom says to Gatsby "'Why there's things between Daisy and me that you'll never know, things that neither of us can ever forget.' These words seemed to bite physically into Gatsby." In this instance, Tom is speaking for Daisy, which shows his power over her. What he's saying, in general, is true. He and Daisy had a long lasting relationship, which holds a lot of weight, despite what the relationship lacked in depth. This is something Gatsby had not included in his elaborate fantasy. He saw it simply as Daisy didn't desire the marriage, and she wanted to be with Gatsby, and had love for only him. In this moment, Gatsby has no control over the situation, which has been his obsession since he began the creation of Jay Gatsby. His power over the situation has gone, which makes the fact that his past has been exposed even worse. Daisy was his last manipulated truth he had left, and Tom destroyed that, saying it was more complicated than what had wanted to be true.
On page page 124 it says, "I stared at him and then at Tom, who had made a parallel discovery less than an hour before--and it occurred to me that there was no difference between men, in intelligence or race, so profound as the difference between the sick and the well." To Nick, he realizes that all humans are the same. They all have feelings and deal with similar problems. However, the difference is seen in how people experience their problems and react to fix it. For Mr. Winston, he became so sick when he finally realized his wife had a separate life. He was so sick by that fact, but he still strived to make Myrtle happy. In contrast, when Tom realizes the situation with Daisy, he became empowered through anger and fought for his wife.
Also, why IS Nick with these people? Aside from Jordan, it doesn't seem like they are genuine company and friends. If Tom and Gastby and Daisy were a "cliche" of sorts, why would Nick bother to spend time with such shallow people? Curiosity? Obligation? Politeness?
“Until I realized that her eyes, wide with jealous terror, were fixed not on Tom, but on Jordan Baker, whom she took to be his wife”. I originally thought that Tom was hypocritical with how he had dealt with both affairs. Because of this chapter, I realize how both of the affairs differ from each other. Tom lives a dual life, separated from each other. I think that by doing this he divides his emotional power, meaning that he has less to lose in case that one woman leaves him. Meanwhile, Daisy is so open about the relationship. I think that they can both hurt the other, but Daisy somehow takes pleasure in it being so open. Tom will always go back to her in the end, and I don't think that Tom knows that she will too. He considers her leaving. The affairs are different, showing Tom in a humane way where he is not hypocritical, but wanting a second chance.
I predict that in the rest of the book Nick will get too caught up in this drama with his rich friends. Someone has already been killed and he has the potential to be questioned by police. He may already be so far in with this drama he may get into a lot more trouble. Also it is apparent in chapter 7 that Gatsby is doing illegal business. "I found out what your 'drug stores' were"(Fitzgerald 133). Nick has been spending a lot of time with Gatsby and I feel like at some point in the future he will get caught up in this illegal business and get himself into a large amount of trouble.
I think that anyone would feel something for a person that they've been married to for such a long time. Also I think that Daisy still is somewhat attracted to Tom's "old" money, not just the money itself but the prestige and ease of life that comes with it.
After Daisy hit Myrtle her and Tom seemed to be getting along again, "There was an unmistakable air of natural intimacy about the picture, and anybody would have said that they were conspiring together"(Fitzgerald 145). The word that really stuck out to me in this passage was conspiring. According to the dictionary conspiring is to come up with an unlawful or harmful act. Because of this quote I predict that her and Tom are trying to come up with a plan to keep Daisy out of trouble for Myrtle's death. However I also think that they are conspiring against Gatsby, because they have decided their relationship was easier and all around better before he was in the picture. So I feel that by the end of the book Daisy will have turned against Gatsby.
Gatsby seems to always be mislead throughout the story by his heart and his mind. It seems like the one thing that is important to him is what we've come back to all the time: the perfect image. I think Gastby attempts and suceeds in not seeing the flaws or the bad about Daisy, because he does not want to believe she can be that brutal toward another. It's like when someone loves someone else, they don't want to believe they could do anything harmful or as stupid as the choice Daisy made. In the end, it seems like both Tom and Gatsby are blinded by love, but also by hate for eachother and themselves. Daisy despises them, but she also wants them to notice her as her. Because of this blind love for her, it seems like they don't really understand her for her, and just want her to be this 'perfect' girl
This is my best insight
Going back to yesterday's phishbowl, we talked about if Daisy can live up to Gatsby's expectations. I think Daisy has made her choice by admitting that she really never stopped loving Tom, but Gatsby has yet to admit that to himself. He is still living in an illusion and only seeing what he wants to see. He is willing to fight Tom for her and I predict that eventually Gatsby will take his love and overprotection for Daisy too far and lose her altogether.
Prediction: Each of the characters were exposed to be someone they were not really in some way. I believe that because most of the characters have proven themselves to be very selfish and only caring about their own image, so in the next few chapters I think we will see some characters realize how just doing things to improve their images is making their lives a little bit more complicated and miserable.
My best insight:
"And what's more, I love Daisy too. Once in a while I go off on a spree and make a fool of myself, but I always come back, and in my heart I love her all the time." If Tom truly loved Daisy he wouldn't do anything to sabotage their relationship or do anything to hurt Daisy. If he truly loved her he wouldn't feel the need or the desire to have affairs. What is their relationship exactly? Are they together for the wrong reasons? What are they getting out of this dramatic and hurtful relationship? If they both just get jealous, and are only doing it for the money the glam and the parties, in the end is that truly whats going to make them happy?
At the end of the chapter, Gatsby is seen standing alone, looking out at Daisy's house. We also see this in chapter 1. How is this instance different and how is it similar?
At the end of chapter one, we see Gatsby "trembling. [Nick] distinguished nothing except a single green light, minute and far way, that might have been the end of a dock" (21). At the end of chapter 7, "[Nick] walked away and left [Gatsby] standing there in the moonlight-watching over nothing" (145). This is a shift for Gatsby. Before this, he saw a green light, symbolizing a dream of a life with Daisy. He was trembling, but reaching out. Now, he's standing here alone, again, but this time with no light, no dream, suggesting that he might not have Daisy any longer.
This quote both affirms the fact that Daisy is above everybody else, and puts it into question. In this moment, Nick is able to see the her motives. He is exposed to her darker side, and the fact that her relationship with Tom was what fulfilled her image. He was well aware that Daisy put on a face, but up until this point, he was mystified by it. Now, Nick sees the instability and falsehood of her persona, and why she is always held so high above everybody else.
Gatsby probably still see the things in her that he remembers, but it's unclear if he only likes her because of the things that have been or if he also accepts what she currently is.
I predict that Gatsby will lose his calm and collected demeanor, and be exposed for who is really is. After Daisy confesses her love for Gatsby, Tom and Gatsby feud with each other over who is in control over daisy: "'You don't understand,' said Gatsby, with a touch of panic. 'You're not going to take care of her any more.'"(Fitzgerald 133). What's important about this quote is the fact that Gatsby is panicked. Gatsby is a character that has been almost completely in control since he was introduced, and now he is losing that control to Tom. This could be the beginning of a break in personality and demeanor, which since Gatsby acts collected in order to protect himself, would mean that he would be exposed and potentially destroyed. Without this protection of character, Gatsby's conception of himself would cease to exist.
The pedestal idea is very real here; there's something about Daisy that drives the people around her to desire her, protect her, and challenge her, at the expense of themselves and their ideals. Even with Myrtle's death, Gatsby's first thought is of Daisy-- "'Was Daisy driving?' 'Yes,' he said after a moment, 'but of course I'll say I was.'" Each of the characters romanticizes her in their own way-- Tom sees her as something to hold and to keep, Gatsby as something to cherish and admire, and Jordan as some ideal product of their lives and society. Nick is in this the only exception; she is his cousin, but he does not feel he owes her some egregious measure of respect or admiration. Is Daisy capable of wrongdoing? Yes, absolutely. She invited Gatsby to their house with no regard for Tom's opinion or Gatsby's comfort, she flaunts her affairs and wealth with an appalling disregard, and she hit Myrtle with a car. But the other characters don't see this; she is such a golden ideal to them that she is never held accountable for her actions, and everyone seems to work together to shield her from their consequences.
This is my prediction
In this chapter, I noticed that the weather had been very hot, mentioned in several places. “The next day was broiling, almost the last, certainly the warmest of the summer” (113). It is also mentioned from the train conductor that it is way too hot. “Hot! said the conductor to familiar faces. Some weather!...” (114).
Adding heat to a place like the valley of ashes would make for a very uncomfortable weather situation which I think also symbolizes the palpable tension between Gatsby and Daisy, and Tom and Myrtle.
“I read somewhere that the sun’s getting hotter every year,” said Tom genially. “It seems that pretty soon the earth’s going to fall into the sun-or wait a minute - it’s just the opposite - the sun’s getting colder every year” (117).
I think it’s interesting that Daisy flowers actually need as much sunlight as possible in order to thrive. They commonly grow in colder climates and thus being so they need a lot of sunlight to still grow. And for Tom to say that the sun is getting colder, it almost seems like he is predicting that Daisy will begin to “wilt” so to speak. Everything is unfolding, Tom’s relationship with Myrtle and Gatsby with Daisy. Daisy is in the middle of a lot of it all. And I think that these things are negatively affecting her as if the sun, which is the thing giving her “life,” is going away… What is the main thing that represents the “sun” in Daisy’s life giving her what she perceives to be as life?
I liked the connection someone in the circle made to Daisy and how Daisy's are actually two different flowers, just like Daisy is kind of two different people/personalities. Has this loving, innocent, needs to be taken care of side and then she has this impure, childish unconfident side. Will she take the blame? Will she step up and be authoritative with her life, or will she continue to hide behind her men.
To answer Patrick's question, I think that Wolfsheim's people that he is helping with the hotel might be another reference by Fitzgerald to the real world, I'm not sure though. Gatsby's money we all know came partly from Cody but the only way he could keep up his sum is through work. Since we do not know that he does have a specific job it can be assumed that he might be doing some Business with wolfsheim maybe illegally.
Best Insight: On page 132, Gatsby is surprised that Daisy loves him and Tom. He wants Daisy to be love solely with him. "'Oh you want too much!' she cried to Gatsby. 'I love you now - isn't that enough? I can't help what's past.' She began to sob helplessly. 'I did love him once - but I loved you too.' Gatsby's eyes opened and closed. 'You loved me too?' he repeated." Earlier we were talking about how Gatsby is portrayed as a divine character; higher than everyone else in some ways. Here, Gatsby's divinity is portrayed like a greedy, jealous god. Gatsby is so fixed in his ways that he feels entitled to get what he wants; he will stop at nothing to attain his dream.
I think that the biggest thing holding them together is the length of their relationship. She's built an image of somebody stable, content, and successful. This stability could be put into question if she strays away from that relationship. I also think that she had love for him, and that became something else to her, something necessary to keep her character consistent.
Insight:
"The next day was broiling, almost the last, certainly the warmest, of the summer." - Pertaining to the weather motif and how it might parallel with what's happening in the story, I noticed that during this chapter, there were a lot of negative mentions of the heat, especially from Daisy, "'You make it ten times worse by crabbing about it.'" and that the heat of summer . almost peaked on this day, it was to the point of unbearable. I think that reflects the situation going on between the four of them and Daisy's own personal situation. Between the four of them, with Tom finding out and knowing tha Jordan and Nick has already known, the confrontation was like this peaking summer day- as if the powder keg had finally exploded. Tom and Daisy's relationship couldn't go on taunting each other, yet faking a healthy marriage and the four of them couldn't go on feigning friendship anymore. As for Daisy, I think that her obligation to each men and the idea of that became hard to bear.
"'You've got to pull yourself together,' he said with soothing gruffness"(Fitzgerald 140). This is the scene after Myrtle has died and Wilson can't function with his grief. Tom is comforting Wilson trying to help him through this tough time. Tom is known for his arrogancy and strength and at this time he showed some vulnerability. Why do you believe that Tom still wanted to help Wilson even though he was married to the woman Tom loved, or at least viewed as a prized possession or a trophy? What was his reason for justification and helping Wilson when he was the only one standing between him and Myrtle for months on end?
Question: When Wilson hears of his wife's death he reacts through shock and pure pain, "Wilson neither heard nor saw. His eyes would drop slowly from the swinging light to the laden table by the wall, and then jerk back to the light again, and he gave out incessantly his high, horrible call"(Fitzgerald 138). While Tom's reaction to Myrtle's death is completely different, he takes charge instantly and doesn't seem to take much time to grieve. How do you think this shows the difference between their relationships and love for each other? Did they only react different because they are different types of people or did this reveal that Tom never had real love for the woman?
Referring back to previous discussion: Is Daisy worth it?
On page 143, "'Well, I tried to swing the wheel-' He broke ff, and suddenly I guessed at the truth. 'Was Daisy driving?' 'Yes,' he said after a moment, 'but of course I'll say I was.'" Gatsby thinks that Daisy is worth the five years of devotion and to picture a future with her. He even goes on to say that Tom will hit or hurt Daisy. So, Gatsby stands outside of her house and waits. I don't think she is worth it to Gatsby, but she is worth Tom's love. Their relationship has unspoken rules and later, at the table seen, both of them seem like they are at home with each other. Gatsby is so blinded by the allusion of Daisy. He is also blinded by the allusion that Tom is the villain, and he is the hero. By seeing other characters in black-or-white perspectives, he will become a victim to his own mind. Referring back to the first chapter, Gatsby's distracted mind was the end of him.
At the end of the chapter, Gatsby is seen standing alone, looking out at Daisy's house. We also see this in chapter 1. How is this instance different and how is it similar?
I think that at the end of this chapter, we see Gatsby staring at Daisy's home in a sorrowful manner, one where he is thinking to himself that all hope is lost and that he is wishing that Daisy would go back to him. "He put his hands in his coat pockets and turned back eagerly to his scrutiny of the house, as through my presence marred the sacredness of the vigil"(145). This words in this quote all show sorrow, and that Daisy is morning their relationship, where in the first chapter he looks at her house with hope, and happiness that there were good things to come.
To tie to this, there's the quote on the last page of this chapter about how "they weren't happy, and neither of them had touched the chicken or the ale--and yet they weren't unhappy either." There's a very real, everyday connection between the two of them here; they're normal people in a normal relationship, devoid of drama or passion, but not a miserable existence. They're fine, but they're not great, and they're nothing glamorous or special. Gatsby represents this whole other idea- the whirlwind romance, the eternal youth, the chance for something more. And as Daisy gets older (note the focus in this chapter of Nick's birthday, and the long note on aging in general,) there's this element of wonder that Daisy strives to reclaim from her past-- Gatsby embodies this ideal, and presents a superficially very easy way to recapture it. Gatsby is wonder and destruction-- her dreams, and the facing of their consequences-- whereas Tom is normal, steady, and average. Daisy doesn't want either of these- she wants passion without responsibility, stability without monotony, and neither of them would be able to provide that. Daisy's stuck choosing between their two extremes-- concepts, as you said, instead of people, and neither are things she really wants.
In response to Jonathan’s first question: “Oh you want too much!” she cried to Gatsby. “I love you now-isn’t that enough? I can’t help what’s past.” She began to sob helplessly. “I did love him once-but I loved you too.”
Daisy reveals here that she is exasperated by the impossible ideals of Gatsby. He wishes for her to be “pure” in a way-like she never moved on from him, even with 5 years of never seeing him. Is this just a product of Gatsby’s eccentric personality, or is it something else?
-Jonathan
I think that as well as his old love for Daisy, I think that a lot of him sees himself as only complete when he is with Daisy. Yesterday, we talked about how “the incarnation was complete.” which was when he kissed Daisy. But a part of James Gatsby is not fully James Gatsby without his Daisy. He thought that his self image would be complete, and it was when he kissed daisy. But he realizes I think that the can’t be with her fully now since she is indeed married to Tom. So one of his main goals of becoming James Gatsby, this fantasy, can not be accomplished with Daisy. Some of him is still Jay may be.
How would it change Tom and Daisy's relationship going forward if Tom were to find out that Daisy was, "'The God damned coward!'"?
Question: At the end of chapter 7, Daisy and Tom are pictured across from each other at the table. Tom, " in his earnestness his hand had fallen upon and covered her own. Once in a while she looked up at him and nodded in agreement". What does this signify about their relationship moving forward? Are they together for the right reasons?
Answer:
When Tom and Daisy are sitting together at the table, hand in hand, Fitzgerald describes them in a way that suggests they have a stronger relationship than Daisy and Gatsby: "They weren't happy... and yet they weren't unhappy either. There was an unmistakable air of natural intimacy about the picture, and anybody would have said that they were conspiring together" (Fitzgerald 145). The fact that Tom and Daisy aren't happy, but neither unhappy, is important because it means they have the potential to rebuild their relationship. Fitzgerald also describes them as having an "unmistakable air of natural intimacy". The fact that this intimacy is described as natural suggests that Daisy is better suited for Tom than Gatsby, where her relationship with Gatsby seems largely forced on her.
I think happiness was not really their motive for marrying each other. I also believe they aren't really thinking that much about happiness in this moment. Gatsby said on page 130, " She only married you because I was poor and she was tired of waiting for me". This shows that her true motive for marrying Tom was not solely based on love and instead based on how rich Tom was. Although it mentioned there was a spark of love at some point, I think jealousy and pain were the main feelings all characters involved were feeling.
“Oh you want too much!” she cried to Gatsby. “I love you now-isn’t that enough? I can’t help what’s past.” She began to sob helplessly. “I did love him once-but I loved you too.” Daisy is always confused by her feelings and needs to take authority of her life and figure out who she wants to be, rather than being ignorantly bliss because its not working out or making her happy for the long while. temporary happiness and glamour seems good in the moment,but at some point its going to end. With the car crash, is she going to let Gatsby take the blame or take responsibility for her actions and stop being ignorant and take charge. Daisy reveals here that she is exasperated by the impossible ideals of Gatsby. He wishes for her to be “pure” in a way-like she never moved on from him, even with 5 years of never seeing him. If Gatsby truly loved Daisy he love her for all of her, all the parts of her flower. He can't just expect her to be the perfect wife, who's innocent and beautiful, someone who will make him happy, look like a great man. He can't just want parts of her. If you truly love someone don't you love them for all of them, especially their flaws? s this just a product of Gatsby’s eccentric personality, or is it something else? Saying all of these things really shines a light on how Gatsby just wants the perfect, dream life and all of the parts that go along with it, the way he wants it. Pointing out how he loves how innocent Daisy is truly shows how he's blind and ignorant to the other parts of Daisy and how he loves her for those. If something did ever happen how would he deal with something going wrong in his "dream plan." How will he feel or what would he do if he found out and truly saw the bad parts of Daisy as well?
I believe that Tom truly does love Daisy. There are so many types of love, but I think that the love that Tom speaks of is more of a paternal love. I think that's why it makes it hard for him to accept the idea of Daisy and Gatsby together because Gatsby is not good enough for Daisy in Tom's eyes. On page 145 it says, "Once in a while she looked up at him and nodded in agreement. They weren't happy...yet they weren't unhappy either. There was an unmistakable air of natural intimacy...." Although both of them are unhappy, they need and rely on each other which creates a natural bond even though it's not a romantic bond. In a another sense, they work well together and are kind of meant to be.
I believe Tom would inherently blame Gatsby for her action some how.
To answer Patrick's question I think that Gatsby would be a fool to anger Tom more. Tom already does not trust him one bit and is angry that he is with his wife. Also what would Gatsby have to gain out of it? I think he tries to protect Daisy because more harm could come to her than could come to him. I think it really was Daisy driving because Gatsby tells Nick that he would take the blame. If he was driving why would he need to falsely take blame.
My best insight:
I looked up what myrtle is online, and it is a flower with white petals and a yellow inside. It is the same color and kind of looks like a daisy as well. Daisy and Myrtle seem completely different, but I'm wondering if this is Fitzgerald's way of saying that they are more alike than we can see. Maybe Tom saw this and liked Myrtle because she was a lot like Daisy. Maybe Daisy meant to kill her on purpose because they were too alike, "'Was Daisy driving?' 'Yes'... ' Well, first daisy turned away from he woman toward the other car, and then lost her nerve and turned back'" (143).
What's the significance of Nick forgetting his birthday?-
He uses the phrase 'menacing decade', which to me shows how Nick has lost his childlike naivety, and his innocent and unbiased perception of Daisy, Tom, and Gatsby. He has now been exposed to Gatsby and Daisy's flaws. This instance also shows that Nick has been invested in other's lives for so long, and has little to no thought about his own needs and wants. This is something he will have to address, along with the flaws within his few relationships.
Responding to Jonathan's question, I think that she meant to hit Myrtle because she didn't try and slow down or brake and kept on driving even after it happened.
Prediction: I think Nick is starting to dream about a happy life with Jordan and this false life will cause him to be admitted into the mental hospital he is in at the beginning of the book. On pages 135 and 136, Nick holds hands with Jordan and worries about turning thirty on the ride home. "But there was Jordan beside me, who, unlike Daisy, was too wise ever to carry well-forgotten dreams from age to age. As we passed over the dark bridge her wan face fell lazily against my coat's shoulder and the formidable stroke of thirty died away with the reassuring pressure of her hand." Throughout the novel, Gatsby constructs dreams for his life with Daisy, Daisy has dreams with her kid and Gatsby, and Tom seems to dream of more possessions and control. Nick claims he is truthful, observant, and doesn't hold false dreams. However, Nick and Jordan aren't in a relationship, yet he holds some romantic interest. Ironically, he seems to be falling in the endless cycle Gatsby can't get out of. And once Nick becomes infatuated with Jordan, he won't be able to cope with reality - he already is having trouble.
Referring to Logan's comment about ghosts during the Phishbowl: On page 115, 'The room, shadowed well with awnings, was dark and cool." On page 118, "'Life starts all over again when it gets crisp and fall" On page 127, "'Imagine marrying anybody in this heat!'" On Page 134, "But with every word she was drawing further and further into herself, so he gave up that and only the dead dream fought on...They were gone, without a word, snapped out, and made accidently, isolated, like ghosts...'No i just remembered it's my birthday.'" Out of so much death comes life and a new perspective. usually marriages ad birthdays are celebrations but they are happening on the day that Myrtle dies. Jordan says that fall is for new beginnings when it is usually used to describe death. Out of the death of Myrtle, and Daisy's and Gatsby's relationship, comes new beginnings. This chapter is almost ironic. There's so much happiness and sadness happening on the same day, like the world is unaware what is about to take place. Tom and Daisy start over. Out of death, comes life.
This may be a stretch. But here goes...Gatsby's car isn't just a car, and by the mention, it is notorious and iconic for its yellow color. Know symbols of the color is hope, enlightenment, spring and sunshine, which is how one might describe Gatsby and Daisy's relationship- and even Daisy herself. Daisy, the Gold Girl, wants to portray such a sunshine image. However, the less popular, but ever-true negative symbols of yellow are...cowardice and betrayal. https://www.colormatters.com/the-meanings-of-colors/yellow & https://www.bourncreative.com/meaning-of-the-color-yellow. So why might Ftizgerald use a car to symbolize or embody Daisy? I think perhaps, a car is what takes one through their life to travel, and I guess the idea of Daisy does that for Gastby.
To answer Logan's question, "At the end of the chapter, Gatsby is seen standing alone, looking out at Daisy's house. We also see this in chapter 1. How is this instance different and how is it similar?"
I think that this instance is different because when Gatsby looks to Daisy's house in chapter 1, he trembling and is scared. It shows how hesitant and unsure of himself he was. On page 145 it says, "He put his hands in his coat pockets and turned back eagerly to his scrutiny of the house, as though my presence marred the sacredness of the vigil." It is different because now he more confident and more sure of what he wants. He wants to stay with Daisy and refuses to leave. It shows a change in character and it's as if he wants to prove himself to Daisy.
in response to Jonathan. Did Daisy intentionally kill MYrtle. how does this effect her symbolism. I think she is two faced. the yellow in her has shown through. I think she intentionally killed Myrtle. why else would she have turned away. she is cynical about everything. It could also be self protection. different factors. etc etc. they imply that she was trying to pass. but she swerved there and back. Page (120) where Gatsby says her voice is full of money. But daisy is more of a self centered character than Gatsby. makes you view Daisy more differently. like in our discussions before her Yellow symbolism is showing. (135) why does Tom want Daisy to ride with tom. I think he has more or less given up on her. he wants someone else. Gatsby spends his whole life creating an identity for himself. made everything a mystery. when Tom investigates, Daisy sees the "mystical" view of Gatsby as gone now. Daisy is no longer impressed. destroying his goodness.
do you feel bad for mrytle? not really. I feel bad because she died but in general we have no connection and she did a lot of bad things that destroyed her reputation. no acceptable.
page 95 collosal delusions- perfect daisy. holds her to this standard. feels pressured. i think she wants to show gatsby she isn't perfect in killing myrtle. gatsby's love for Daisy is too excessive. he is almost stalkerish. taking it to far. using people to get to her. she is scared to go to him. He followed her across the country to see her.
lexi says myrtle looks exactly like a daisy but with more protruding center bits. This is interesting because they are both tainted. Tom is looking for people like that. which is why he is having this affair with mrytle. Maybe Daisy wanted only one of her? and thats why she killed her. been jealous, over stimulated and stressed. that she just took it all out.
gatsby took the blame because he reaches the point and realization he cant be with her so he protects her in the only way possible.
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